WoW Forever · Melee damage (Energy)

Subtlety Rogue

Subtlety makes preparation, openers and the next target state part of the plan. Stealth creates choices but does not guarantee that every enemy can be bypassed or that every positional attack is available. Weapon requirements still apply to Backstab and Ambush.

Current beta play is capped at level 30. Level 60 reference models and deeper talents are identified as later planning. Client descriptions and server updates can differ.

In this guide

What this build asks you to do

Hemorrhage changes the target’s Rupture interaction, while later Thousand Cuts connects Rupture’s periodic events to a cheaper following builder. The sequence rewards keeping a bleed useful on a living target; refreshing it on an enemy about to die can waste points. Preparation resets eligible Rogue cooldowns, but it does not create a new set of Combo Points or remove the need to decide when an escape is valuable.

Openers, control and bleed follow-ups provide flexible decisions.
Position, weapon choice and target lifetime can limit the ideal sequence.

Sources for this section

TalentsForever: current beta talents and spell tooltips Forever beta report · 1.60.1.70170 · 2026-10-04
CC-BY-4.0 author-client export generated October 4. Build 70170 with dated research/hotfix annotations; client descriptions do not establish every current server effect or trainer offer.
Method: Rogue levelling advice Forever author guide · 2026-10-04
Original creator playstyle and spending advice. Exact unlocks are cross-checked against beta data; dated Blizzard changes override stale details.
Forever class attribute coefficients Client data · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Class baseline attack-power coefficients; form-specific branches and modifiers are separate.
Matching Forever character-stat display Client interface source · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Client display basis: 14 AP per nominal ordinary weapon DPS, 2 Armor per Agility, and Cat-specific Agility branch. Not a special-attack or shapeshifted damage model.

Choose the next action

Choose the opener and approach for this target. Stealth gives options, but an enemy noticing you or an unusable rear position can require a different attack.
With Hemorrhage learned, prepare its target interaction and build points through a usable attack. Keep the target condition separate from the Combo Points held by the Rogue.
Spend on Rupture when the target will live long enough for the bleed. Its ongoing effect survives the finisher’s point spend, rather than becoming another independent bleed each time you inspect it.
Later Thousand Cuts prepares a cheaper eligible builder from a Rupture periodic event. Use that conditional benefit, then clear the prepared state while the useful bleed can continue.
Keep Preparation and escape choices for the actual situation. Resetting eligible cooldowns does not create Combo Points or make every positional attack possible.

Sources for this section

TalentsForever: current beta talents and spell tooltips Forever beta report · 1.60.1.70170 · 2026-10-04
CC-BY-4.0 author-client export generated October 4. Build 70170 with dated research/hotfix annotations; client descriptions do not establish every current server effect or trainer offer.
Method: Rogue levelling advice Forever author guide · 2026-10-04
Original creator playstyle and spending advice. Exact unlocks are cross-checked against beta data; dated Blizzard changes override stale details.
Forever class attribute coefficients Client data · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Class baseline attack-power coefficients; form-specific branches and modifiers are separate.
Matching Forever character-stat display Client interface source · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Client display basis: 14 AP per nominal ordinary weapon DPS, 2 Armor per Agility, and Cat-specific Agility branch. Not a special-attack or shapeshifted damage model.

Later mechanic: Rupture prepares a cheaper builder

Click through an illustrative sequence. Conditional effects require the named spells and talents; this is not a damage, resource, threat or timing simulation.

Use Hemorrhage: When learned, apply the target condition for this Rogue’s Rupture interaction and build points.
Spend on Rupture: Use a learned Rupture when the enemy will live long enough for its bleed to matter.
Periodic event prepares the benefit: With later Thousand Cuts learned, a Rupture event reduces the cost of the next eligible builder.
Choose that builder: Use Hemorrhage or an eligible Backstab, then reassess position and the remaining bleed.

Inspect the interaction

The scene explains this named mechanic. The saved level 60 priority reference, where present, is separate.

Later mechanic: Rupture prepares a cheaper builder Later planning · requires deeper spells or talents

Later mechanic: Rupture prepares a cheaper builder

Click through an illustrative sequence. Conditional effects require the named spells and talents; this is not a damage, resource, threat or timing simulation.

This scene illustrates a named interaction. Playback does not simulate combat timing, damage, resource costs or enemy behaviour.

Sources for this section

TalentsForever: current beta talents and spell tooltips Forever beta report · 1.60.1.70170 · 2026-10-04
CC-BY-4.0 author-client export generated October 4. Build 70170 with dated research/hotfix annotations; client descriptions do not establish every current server effect or trainer offer.
Method: Rogue levelling advice Forever author guide · 2026-10-04
Original creator playstyle and spending advice. Exact unlocks are cross-checked against beta data; dated Blizzard changes override stale details.
Forever class attribute coefficients Client data · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Class baseline attack-power coefficients; form-specific branches and modifiers are separate.
Matching Forever character-stat display Client interface source · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Client display basis: 14 AP per nominal ordinary weapon DPS, 2 Armor per Agility, and Cat-specific Agility branch. Not a special-attack or shapeshifted damage model.

Build the toolkit

Keep the actual stealth, builder, finisher and poison toolkit trained. Hemorrhage is a point choice and Thousand Cuts is deeper later planning. Follow the ordinary Rogue levelling route when you want a first solo build rather than assuming the full model is an early quest setup.

Build the toolkit
Level	Decision or milestone	Scope
20	Ghostly Strike is an ordinary talent-row option.	Current beta
25	Premeditation is a talent-row choice.	Current beta
30	Hemorrhage and Preparation are options.	Current beta
40	Thousand Cuts is deeper planning.	Later planning

Sources for this section

TalentsForever: current beta talents and spell tooltips Forever beta report · 1.60.1.70170 · 2026-10-04
CC-BY-4.0 author-client export generated October 4. Build 70170 with dated research/hotfix annotations; client descriptions do not establish every current server effect or trainer offer.
Method: Rogue levelling advice Forever author guide · 2026-10-04
Original creator playstyle and spending advice. Exact unlocks are cross-checked against beta data; dated Blizzard changes override stale details.
Forever class attribute coefficients Client data · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Class baseline attack-power coefficients; form-specific branches and modifiers are separate.
Matching Forever character-stat display Client interface source · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Client display basis: 14 AP per nominal ordinary weapon DPS, 2 Armor per Agility, and Cat-specific Agility branch. Not a special-attack or shapeshifted damage model.

Understand the upgrade

A dagger or positional requirement can determine whether an attack is usable before any stat weight is relevant.

Useful bleed output depends on how long the target survives, not only an attack-power total.

These examples isolate attribute relationships. They are not a prediction of full ability DPS, threat, pet damage or survivability.

Understand the upgrade
Comparison	Meaning
+10 Agility	+10 baseline melee AP and +20 ranged AP; about +0.769 percentage points of weapon crit at level 30, before talents.
Weapon context	Main-hand, off-hand and positional builder choices must be compared separately.
Survival or reserve	A damage stat does not replace the health and resource reserve needed to finish the pull.

Sources for this section

Forever class attribute coefficients Client data · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Class baseline attack-power coefficients; form-specific branches and modifiers are separate.
Matching Forever character-stat display Client interface source · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Client display basis: 14 AP per nominal ordinary weapon DPS, 2 Armor per Agility, and Cat-specific Agility branch. Not a special-attack or shapeshifted damage model.
Matching Forever attribute breakpoints Client interface source · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
First 20 effective Intellect and Stamina breakpoints; Intellect above 20 has 15 mana per point in the client display. HP above the Stamina breakpoint uses a runtime getter.
Forever client regeneration evidence Client interface source · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Reported rate display and accepted class/retention evidence. No universal Spirit-to-MP5 conversion or invented server tick formula.

Questing and group play

For solo quests, compare the value of a careful opener with travel and recovery rather than measuring only its first hit. In a party, use control and interrupts deliberately and choose a builder that fits the tank’s position. A stealth-oriented label does not eliminate weapon requirements or the danger of breaking nearby control.

Sources for this section

TalentsForever: current beta talents and spell tooltips Forever beta report · 1.60.1.70170 · 2026-10-04
CC-BY-4.0 author-client export generated October 4. Build 70170 with dated research/hotfix annotations; client descriptions do not establish every current server effect or trainer offer.
Method: Rogue levelling advice Forever author guide · 2026-10-04
Original creator playstyle and spending advice. Exact unlocks are cross-checked against beta data; dated Blizzard changes override stale details.
Forever class attribute coefficients Client data · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Class baseline attack-power coefficients; form-specific branches and modifiers are separate.
Matching Forever character-stat display Client interface source · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Client display basis: 14 AP per nominal ordinary weapon DPS, 2 Armor per Agility, and Cat-specific Agility branch. Not a special-attack or shapeshifted damage model.

Choose useful equipment

Compare a weapon against the builder it enables and the useful finishers in your allocation. A dagger can support a positional attack while another weapon improves a different contact plan. A long-lived bleed benefits from a target that survives; do not value its full potential on an enemy dying immediately.

Sources for this section

TalentsForever: current beta talents and spell tooltips Forever beta report · 1.60.1.70170 · 2026-10-04
CC-BY-4.0 author-client export generated October 4. Build 70170 with dated research/hotfix annotations; client descriptions do not establish every current server effect or trainer offer.
Method: Rogue levelling advice Forever author guide · 2026-10-04
Original creator playstyle and spending advice. Exact unlocks are cross-checked against beta data; dated Blizzard changes override stale details.
Forever class attribute coefficients Client data · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Class baseline attack-power coefficients; form-specific branches and modifiers are separate.
Matching Forever character-stat display Client interface source · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Client display basis: 14 AP per nominal ordinary weapon DPS, 2 Armor per Agility, and Cat-specific Agility branch. Not a special-attack or shapeshifted damage model.
Forever item reference: build 70205 Client data · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Item names and requirements; client presence does not establish a drop source or current access.

Level 60 reference priorities

Undead; saved 11/9/31 talent split; level 60; 10,000 iterations; one level 63 target; nominal 120 seconds with ±15 seconds variation.

These are the visible core spell decisions in this saved model’s effective rotation, in source priority order. Check the first usable higher-priority action; later entries can be skipped. Item, racial and other auxiliary management remains in the full report, and execute-phase percentages are encounter settings rather than proc chances.

Level 60 reference priorities
Action	Condition in this saved model
Premeditation	No additional priority test
Ambush	active effect: Stealth
Slice and Dice	((Combo Points ≥ 1 AND NOT (active effect: Slice and Dice) AND fight time remaining ≥ 6) OR (Combo Points ≥ 5 AND remaining effect time: Slice and Dice < 3 AND fight time remaining > 9))
Vanish	(NOT (active effect: Stealth) AND (Energy ≥ 60 AND Combo Points ≤ 1 AND active effect: Slice and Dice AND fight time remaining > 10))
Ambush	No additional priority test
Rupture	(Combo Points ≥ 4 AND NOT (periodic effect active: Rupture) AND fight time remaining > 8)
Eviscerate	(Combo Points ≥ 4 AND (active effect: Slice and Dice OR Energy ≥ 79 OR fight time remaining < 6))
Backstab	No additional priority test

Sources for this section

MythicSim: Subtlety Rogue Model documentation · 2026-10-05
Saved level 60 reference, inspected October 5, 2026. Engine forever-f43215d07e51fc228c2e32366d7563b03d76fec8. Its priorities and events describe this model, not tested live gameplay.

Inspect the saved opening

These timestamps show selected events from one recorded model opening. A row can be a triggered event; it is not automatically another button press. Negative times are preparation before the encounter.

Saved endgame model · later planning

Saved level 60 reference

Inspect events from this saved setup.

Level 60 single-target damage reference · later planning

Inspect the saved opening

These rows are events from one model timeline. A triggered hit or effect is not automatically an extra player cast.

Saved model event · -1 sStealth

Inspect the original setup and full report →

Sources for this section

MythicSim: Subtlety Rogue Model documentation · 2026-10-05
Saved level 60 reference, inspected October 5, 2026. Engine forever-f43215d07e51fc228c2e32366d7563b03d76fec8. Its priorities and events describe this model, not tested live gameplay.

Equipment in this reference

The publisher describes these sets as primarily dungeon and crafted equipment, rather than optimized BiS. The Survival and Holy / Protection references have beta-gear exceptions. This is an item sample without inferred inventory slots.

Equipment in this reference
Reference item	How to use this comparison
Devilsaur Gauntlets	Fixed reference item; verify your level, source and current access.
Devilsaur Leggings	Fixed reference item; verify your level, source and current access.
Shadowcraft Boots	Fixed reference item; verify your level, source and current access.

Sources for this section

MythicSim: Subtlety Rogue Model documentation · 2026-10-05
Saved level 60 reference, inspected October 5, 2026. Engine forever-f43215d07e51fc228c2e32366d7563b03d76fec8. Its priorities and events describe this model, not tested live gameplay.
Forever item reference: build 70205 Client data · 1.60.1.70205 · 2026-10-04
Item names and requirements; client presence does not establish a drop source or current access.
MythicSim: reference-model methodology Model documentation · 2026-10-04
Dated level 60 damage-model references; selected profiles are not gameplay or healer-performance evidence.